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Just thought I'd throw this out there, I know some of you are aware of this, but not everyone. Since the last post had mention of the huge pressures that can be encountered when liquid propane gets trapped without heed to expansion.
When manifolding several tanks together, it is possible to get migration of propane between the tanks. (or any liquid phase compressed gas such as carbon dioxide or nitrous oxide)
An easy way to cause this to happen would be, say, if you had a few tanks manifolded together and suddenly changed the temperature of one of the tanks, while all of the valves are open. If you took one tank and tossed it in a hot water bath while the other tanks remained at atmospheric temp, propane would migrate from the warmer tank and condense in the colder tanks.
This could potentially lead to one or more tanks becoming dangerously overfull.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled whatever.
When manifolding several tanks together, it is possible to get migration of propane between the tanks. (or any liquid phase compressed gas such as carbon dioxide or nitrous oxide)
An easy way to cause this to happen would be, say, if you had a few tanks manifolded together and suddenly changed the temperature of one of the tanks, while all of the valves are open. If you took one tank and tossed it in a hot water bath while the other tanks remained at atmospheric temp, propane would migrate from the warmer tank and condense in the colder tanks.
This could potentially lead to one or more tanks becoming dangerously overfull.
I now return you to your regularly scheduled whatever.
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Re: Propane migration
Thu, May 7, 2009 - 11:54 PMAre your hypothetical tanks manifolded together through liquid lines or vapor lines? -
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Re: Propane migration
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 12:06 PMIf you have say, two or more bulk tanks....Say 100 pounders, (without OPD valves) you can have migration.
www.airproducts.com/nr/rdonl...ram38.pdf
Cut and paste the link above, it explains more clearly.
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Re: Propane migration
Fri, May 8, 2009 - 6:24 AMIf the tanks were standard propane tanks with OVP valves, methinks unlikely to occur. -
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Re: Propane migration
Sun, May 10, 2009 - 7:49 AM100# tanks don't have those though, he makes a good point. -
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Re: Propane migration
Sun, May 10, 2009 - 6:31 PMall propane tanks and/or valves have pressure relief safety vents on them - for that exact purpose.
If they are overfilled or get too hot - they simply vent off the excess and the valve seals again. -
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Re: Propane migration
Sun, May 10, 2009 - 6:34 PMargh - ok, now I get it.....
yes, you can flow liquid from one tank to another, from a siphon or ( or turn the tank upside down) through gravity transfer.
I think that's the question..... -
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Re: Propane migration
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 6:25 AMCan this happen with regulated (60 Psi) systems as well? -
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Re: Propane migration
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 10:41 AMIf you have the regluators at each tank valve, no. If you go to a group manifold then to the regulator. sure.
The most likely situation where this could happen is if you are heating one tank, and not another, the hot tank will boil off, and it will condense in the cooler tank. -
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Re: Propane migration
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 12:17 PMThe same thing can happen anywhere's in the pressurized system.
Example: A few years back 'the dog slicer' was running at nimby. It was december and probably about 50F outside. The system immediately cooled down and we lost pressure. We then placed the tank in a water bath of about 80F. immediately, even though we were on vapor draw, liquid propane condensed throughout the system.
Manifold two tanks together and the same thing can happen. the system will try to equalize. cause a temperature differential and a proportional amoount of propane will transfer between areas of the system to cause equality. you will not transfer liquid through a vapor system. But you can evaporate gas from one place and condense it in another location.
This happens easily with propane. It transfers as easily as r-22 refrigerant, and has a similar heat of vaporization. In fact, you can pretty much use propane as a replacement for r-22.
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Re: Propane migration
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 1:26 PMQuestion, If you have two 1000 gal propane tanks manifolded together by 3/4 in. iron pipe. There are two 1st stage regulators one on each tank. Both tanks were filled to 80% capicity. The temp. has been in the 90's and 100's. The tank on the east side is down to 5%, the tank on the west side is still on 80%. Why aren't the tanks feeding at the same rate? Oh, the tanks are 3 feet apart and both in an open area or full sun. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Propane migration
Fri, August 14, 2009 - 4:52 PMregulators are not "exactly" the same. The east tank regulator is setting the manifold pressure slightly above the cutoff for the west regulator.
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Re: Propane migration
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 12:21 PMHow many people out there are using OPD tanks? Not everyone, and they are only on the smaller tanks.
The concept applies to the rest of the system though. Not just the tank. Any part of the system is capable of condensing liquid wiht a temperature differential.
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