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Hello everyone i want to build a fire cannon probably soleniod controlled but almost dont know where to start i have a lot of ideas, and i have access to a lot of propane tanks, tools and what not, im an electronics expert (EE), the only thing i need to know is what safety measures i should take so i dont have a 5-8 Gallon Tank blow up on me, i may end up using this for local shows etc etc, i read up a lot on the build of such cannon but no one really talks about safety, such as flashback arresters etc things of that sort, and design ideas sizing of accumulator, solenoid, id's & od's of piping... im looking to build something that will have a max height of about 20-25ft in the air but somehow to also limit it to about 10ft max also, may be used indoors for large events... for me the design of the cannon itself is the problem and most important for me is SAFETY! ive seen some crazy stuff with propane tanks blowing up, and i really dont need that im pretty young, ~20 yrs, i had an idea using a timing circuit to refil the accumulator with a fill soleniod, when the actually fire soleniod is fired, but i dunno if there is enough time to fill before the next fire, i might fire using DMX control, (ill be making the dmx to soleniod interface, very easy its just serial data) so i have all these ideas, now i need help with the actual build design, so if any of you guys can help that would be great, i have (aim) messenger message me for the screenname....
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Mon, November 24, 2008 - 7:22 AMRead everything on this board. There is a lot of information here, including discussion about solenoids, backflash arrestors, flow rates and piping. Re read everything here, including discussions about the NFPA guidelines and download copies of them. Read them.
As far as general design, the DMX is a minor hurdle. All of the solenoids are just 2 wire on off for smaller sizes (use 12 or 24vdc) and can be operated with pushbuttons.
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Tue, November 25, 2008 - 2:29 PM>ive seen some crazy stuff with propane tanks blowing up
Seriously? Please tell!
As far as I know, there are very few root failures of propane tanks (usually some combination of overfilling, placed in a fire, or shot with rifle). I'd be really interested in hearing some horror stories... and I'm sure I'm not the only sick creep around here who loves hearing about destruction. -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Wed, November 26, 2008 - 7:53 AMaluminum cylinders are best for average size effects because they won't rust. Be weary of steel tanks with any rust on them.
"...I'm not the only sick creep around here who loves hearing about destruction.
im not sick.
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Wed, November 26, 2008 - 9:38 PMwell thats not really what i was concerned about: the tank blowing up because of defects or rust etc, im worried about flashbacks mostly, and i really dont wanna like blowup myself, i pretty much have an unlimited supply of propane, so i can do just about anything, parents own gas stations, but like the thing is safety. Like will the tank blow up during a show if the tank pressure is low as in gas level, will it flashback? etc those are the things im worried about, mainly: where the gas is entering the accumulator and the accumulator itself and flashbacks are my concern... -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Tue, December 2, 2008 - 10:52 PMIf there is no O2 in the tank it cannot explode. Flash backs are not a problem with accumulators. -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, December 4, 2008 - 10:18 AMWell you see, i had plans to build an accumulator that had a propane line constantly spraying into it, then when the main output solenoid (1.5"-2") closed it would start charging the accumulator, so i can rapidly fire the dragontails pretty much, like 1-2 per sec, the question is, if i dont use regulators, or anything just direct lines from the propane tank's head valve to accm., then rapid fire the soleniod, during that firing, or when it the valve is open for a longer time to make a bigger/higher flame, would O2 be able to get into either the accum. tank, OR the propane tank (when pressure is low enough when the tank is about to go empty, would the tank explode then?) these are things people arnt really talking about thats why im asking... after all i am an electrical engineering (EE) student, but at the same time i dont wanna blow myself up doing this project, im only 19, i dont need to die now lol! -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, December 4, 2008 - 4:03 PMIf you think there is a chance you might need it, good practice is to put it in. Two years ago at Burningman, Lucy inspected my sound cannon and commented positively about backflash arrestors in the plumbing. He/She described the scenario you are concerned about. It has happened. When the propane vaporizes, it gets cold and lowers the vapor pressure....the rest may or may not happen....if not, OKAY, if so BOOM.
Look at Cinder's similar project somewhere on this tread. -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, December 4, 2008 - 5:34 PMwell i understand there are like 1/2" arresters for the propane line to the accum. but what if the accumulator blows up during the rapid fill, blow, fill blow...? i mean i prob need to make about 8 of these an use them indoors 40ft away from ppl, if it blows its a problem.... so the arrester on the propane will help with the storage tank from blowing, but what about accumulator? -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, December 4, 2008 - 7:55 PM"...i had plans to build an accumulator...then when the main output solenoid (1.5"-2") closed it would start charging the accumulator, so i can rapidly fire the dragontails pretty much, like 1-2 per sec"
that's going to be one very huge concussive explosion.
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Sun, January 25, 2009 - 9:59 PMMight I suggest checking out www.gilderfluke.com, for your controll needs. I have used some of their controllers for my effects (6 poofers linked together) with great results. The unit retails for around $200, and is very easy to use. Its plug and play and you dont have to screw with dmx cable. Comes with a program for the lap top, you just need to by a cable from the Bomb Shack to communicate with the device. Write the program, test it and your good to go. -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Wed, March 4, 2009 - 9:40 PMAny suggestions for taking 5 - piezo transducer inputs and using them to open 6 or 12 solenoids in real time?
I looked at the mini bricks from Gilderfluke but their inputs seem to require a on/off switch like voltage to operate rather than a small induced voltage that I would get out of my transducers.. -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, March 5, 2009 - 11:35 AMTroy,
I have done this using a small VOX (voice operated switch) circuit that I found online. You can find them at Fry's too.
shop2.frys.com/product/1743201
Microcontrollers are a good way to go if you are set up to work with them, otherwise the VOX works well for an analog solution. The piezo is an idea device for this as it does not seem to be sensitive to the actual sound of the effect going off. The microphone I tried first would pick up the noise of the effect and that would keep the valve open.
Captain Chuck
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, March 5, 2009 - 5:21 PMI'm tie-ing into a system which already uses the piezo's for it's input, so sort of piggy backing or Y connecting my propane solenoids and system into that loop.
I like the VOX simplicity (and price!), if I tied the piezo's into the VOX's microphone/sound input it should trigger fine.
How fast does the VOX respond? can you rig it to just quickly trigger the solenoid with each sound rapidly? or is it an off/on deal? -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Thu, March 5, 2009 - 7:10 PMIt comes on fast but it is not instant. You would have to play with it to try to get it to match a music beat. If you want that kind of response you might have to go with your own software and some sort of microcontroller like a PSOC.
Soon as the audio drops your circuit should close. Depending on the hysteresis of the circuit it may stay on for longer. Again, microcontrollers can fix that but buy the cheap circuit and see how it works. It might just do the trick. -
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Re: Fire Cannon Soleniod Controlled DMX Need Design Ideas Must Use Propane
Sun, March 15, 2009 - 2:24 PMGood call on the Microcontroller!
I settled on a Arduino Duemilanove and it works perfectly and still has a lot of room for expansion in regards to inputs and outputs, I've got LED's responding in real time to the piezo sensors (real time at least by human eye standards)
Once my relay boards arrive I'll see if the Solenoids can keep up.
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