What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

topic posted Thu, April 17, 2008 - 3:19 PM by  Greg
I am testing my ASCO 8210G100 .....2"..... normally closed.......120 V......5 PSI min operating pressure and I have a problem.

For these tests, the valve was hooked to a 40 PSI compressor and hooked up to the "IN" side of the valve.

Here are the symptoms:

Power off - valve is closed correctly.
Energize - valve opens normally
THEN when i turn power off the valve stays open. The only way to get it to close is to completely remove the green electrical unit. As soon as I take off the green electrical unit valve closes normally.

Other test (similar to one above)

Solenoid powered up through entire exercise... valve is flowing normally then I take off the green electrical unit....... valve closes normally. Slide the energized green unit back on valve opens. As fast as I can put the solenoid on and off it fires perfectly.

What is the problem with the valve? Keep in mind the unit uses existing pressure to open and close itself (5 psi min). Is there some left over magnetic charge in the green electrical unit that makes it want to keep the valve open?

Thanks for any help.

- Greg
posted by:
Greg
Boise
  • Re: What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

    Thu, April 17, 2008 - 9:24 PM
    There will be some residual magnetism left in the coil, even if de-energized. The valve uses the internal spring and proably some back pressure to help close the valve against this residual magnetism. Try restricting the outlet somewhat so that the pressure stays above 5 psi when open.

    Is the coil AC or DC?

    Otherwise call the asco rep in colorado 303-779-6990 or factory tech support (800) 524-1023

    good luck let us know what you figure out
    • Re: What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

      Thu, April 17, 2008 - 9:41 PM
      The coil is 120 V AC (Household current). I think that the pressure used to operate the valve is all on the upstream side. The fact that removing the coil causes it to work correctly adds to your hypothsis of "left over" magnetism. You would think that ASCO would have taken this into account when designing the valve. I would like to see if it would eventually rid itself of magnetism and shut down, but by then the air tank on the compressor is below the 5 psi to operate the valve.

      I will see what other people come up with on this site and then I will call ASCO advanced tech support (the tech support in CA ran out of ideas). The advanced tech support can be reached at 973-966-2082. They are East coast so they were closed when I called.

      Thanks for all the ideas!
      • Re: What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

        Thu, April 17, 2008 - 10:00 PM
        residual magnetism in the coil is quite possible, as well as the valve body if it is a steel body. They do offer almost eery valve in brass and some in stainless as well.

        If it is a 2" valve with a really large C.V. the maximum pressure on the valve might be lower than the 40 psi you are using. Try running it at 20 psi or 10 psi just for kicks and to eliminate the pressure theory.

        You might try swapping coils as well.

        Also, make sure that what you have is an AC valve. not only do they make AC and DC coil packs in a range of voltages, but the innards of the valve assemblies differ as well. You cannot just put a DC coil pack on a valve designed to take an AC coil. Nor will the opposite work properly. The coils will FIT, but the actuators are designed specifically for each's respective fields.
  • Re: What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

    Thu, April 17, 2008 - 10:17 PM
    I did a simple search on you model number....

    www.pettersupply.com/Product...lts.aspx

    www.anderson-bolds.com/Mercha...ant.mvc

    I found you valve listed as both a 120vac and 24vdc unit. you're gonna need to verify if the valve you phisically have is one or the other or is a mixed breed of components......
    • Re: What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

      Thu, April 17, 2008 - 10:43 PM
      www.ascovalve.com/Common/PD...6583R7.pdf

      If you look at the exploded view drawings near the end you may note that there are different actuator cores used depending on whether it is intended for AC or DC coil packs.

      I suspect you have a DC core in your valve, combined with that AC coil pack you are using. This is a likely cause of your malfunction.
      • Re: What is wrong with my ASCO valve?

        Fri, April 18, 2008 - 7:20 PM
        Results of 1 hour with tech support on ASCO valve problem:

        I talked to the tech for a while and he actually talked me through a full dismantling of the valve and actuator assemble. I will try to talk in visual phonetics as I describe what I did. I took off the green coil and then using a fairly large wrench I unbolted the long polished silver rod that comes out of this valve (the rod that the coil slid on). After opening it I found that inside that rod there is a piece of metal that slides inside the silver rod and when the valve is energized (Open) it is pulled up the silver rod away from a seat and allows air to enter a chamber that actuates the valve. When the valve is de-energized a small spring pushed the piece of metal in the silver rod is pushed back over the seat thus stopping the airflow and closing the valve. Apparently at some point in the past, the valve was open and someone took out that spring. That is what led to the symptoms I had. The valve would always open but would not close as de-energizing it wold just let the metal rod rest in the open position. Why would removing the energized coil cause it to shut? Magnets have a field that is stronger in some places than others. As I would pull off the coil, the magnetic field was moved to a point where it would act on the piece of metal inside the silver rod pushing it to the closed position. When I put the energized coil back on it would function as usual.

        Make sense? I was thinking about doing a youtube video on this as it is so hard to describe. They wanted $265 for a rebuild kit that contained the spring but that is out of my budget. Against their advice I built my own spring out of a pen and the valve seems to work great so I know that was the problem. Anyone have the hook up on the correct spring? Let me know if you have any more questions and thanks for the ideas.

        If anyone out there is real experienced with standard 20 lb accumulators, 1/2 inch and 3/4 inch discharges I am looking for some one to shoot some ideas off of. It would save me a bunch of testing.

        Thanks! - Greg

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